Bordeaux 2009 - Les gros prix sortent!

Vincent Messier-Lemoyne a écrit:

Joe Boucher a écrit:D’autant que le débat fait continuellement rage sur les fameux échantillons trafiqués, les cuvées Parker pour plaire à monsieur, et maintenant l’idée que certains châteaux utilisent leur second vin pour gonfler le volume du premier vin qui a reçu une excellente note (on préfère vendre beaucoup du plus cher!)… il me semble qu’une telle liste serait vraiment intéressante.

Je n'ai pas encore lu l'article, paru dans la dernière RVF, mais Jean-Hubert Delon (de Las Cases) semble décrier, tout en admettant que cela se fasse, que plusieurs Châteaux préparent leurs échantillons en fonction des dégustateurs ...

Disons, sans pouvoir citer qui que ce soit, que c'est une pratique courante. À Bordeaux comme... ailleurs où l'on m'a carrément fait déguster les échantillons de deux barriques distinctes en me prévenant que l'une avait été "trafiquée". Rien de moins

Comme on trafique les échantillons pour obtenir de grosses notes, que les prix sont fixés selon les notes et que les consommateurs achètent en fonction des notes, voilà une belle équation qui traduit bien la mécanique bien huilée des primeurs. Et c'est sûrement pas le consommateur qui en sort gagnant!

Effectivement, pour les échantillons c'est convenu.

Mais je reprends:
Depuis que les critiques font leur travail il doit bien exister une liste, faite par quelqu’un du milieu, qui présente ces dégustations dans le temps, et qui révise ces notes.

Connaissez-vous l'existance d'une telle liste?

Connais pas ... mail il serait intéressant en fait de sortir le "palmarès" des vins dont les notes baissent le plus entre l'échantillon primeur et la dégustation en bouteille ... intuitivement, j'ai l'impression que les mêmes noms reviendraient d'année en année ...

Vous trouverez cette comparaison note primeur / note bouteille ici pour les critiques les plus connus:

http://bleguern.fr/blg/primeur/rp.php?lang=fr&year=2009&data=data

Je viens de recevoir ce courriel de Acker Merral & Condit ... c'est fou comme les vins paraissent peu chers ...!!

1 bottle 1998 Ausone $499 per bottle, 94pts, WA

1 bottle 1990 Beausejour Duffau (gsl) $799 per bottle, 100pts, WA

1 half-bottle 1961 Calon Segur (base neck, good color) $149 per half bottle
1 bottle 1982 Calon Segur $289 per bottle, 93pts, WA
3 bottles 2000 Calon Segur $99 per bottle, 93pts, ST

1 bottle 1982 Canon $229 per bottle 93pts, WA

1 bottle 1983 Cheval Blanc (torn label) $489 per bottle 95pts, WA

1 bottle 1989 Clinet $599 per bottle, 100pts, WA
1 bottle 1990 Clinet $279 per bottle, 95pts, WA

4 bottles 2005 Clos l'Eglise $129 per bottle, 96pts, WA

2 bottles 1982 Cos d'Estournel $359 per bottle, 95pts, WA
2 bottles 1985 Cos d'Estournel $179 per bottle, 93pts, WA
2 bottles 1995 Cos d'Estournel $159 per bottle, 95pts, WA
4 bottles 1996 Cos d'Estournel $149 per bottle, 93pts, WA
2 bottles 2000 Cos d'Estournel $159 per bottle, 96pts, WS
2 bottles 2003 Cos d'Estournel $199 per bottle, 98pts, WA

1 bottle 1985 Ducru Beaucaillou $109 per bottle, 92pts, WA
1 bottle 1995 Ducru Beaucaillou $159 per bottle, 94pts, WA
2 bottles 1996 Ducru Beaucaillou $159 per bottle, 96pts, WA

4 bottles 1995 Figeac $99 per bottle, 95pts, WS

5 bottles 1995 Grand Puy Lacoste $119 per bottle, 95pts, WA
4 bottles 1996 Grand Puy Lacoste $99 per bottle, 93pts, WA
2 bottles 2000 Grand Puy Lacoste $109 per bottle, 93pts, WA

1 bottle 1982 Gruaud Larose $329 per bottle, 98pts, WA
1 bottle 1986 Gruaud Larose (wisl) $169 per bottle, 94pts, WA
4 bottles 1989 Gruaud Larose $119 per bottle, 94pts, WS
3 bottles 2000 Gruaud Larose $119 per bottle, 94pts, WA

1 bottle 1959 Haut Brion $1,995 per bottle, 98pts, WS
1 bottle 1982 Haut Brion $849 per bottle, 96pts, ST
1 bottle 1998 Haut Brion $329 per bottle, 96pts, WA
4 bottles 2000 Haut Brion $629 per bottle, 99pts, WA

2 bottles 1989 L' Angelus $299 per bottle, 96pts, WA
4 bottles 1990 L' Angelus $399 per bottle, 96pts, WA
3 bottles 1995 L' Angelus $189 per bottle, 95pts, WA
3 bottles 1998 L' Angelus $159 per bottle, 93pts, WA
3 bottles 2000 L' Angelus $249 per bottle, 97pts, WA

3 bottles 1982 La Conseillante $349 per bottle, 94pts, WA
1 bottle 1985 La Conseillante $219 per bottle, 94pts, WA
1 bottle 1989 La Conseillante $299 per bottle, 93pts, WA
1 bottle 1990 La Conseillante $359 per bottle, 97pts, WA
5 bottles 2000 La Conseillante $189 per bottle, 96pts, WA
3 bottles 2005 La Conseillante $189 per bottle, 96pts, WA

1 bottle 1998 La Fleur Petrus $149 per bottle, 93pts, WS
1 magnum 1998 La Fleur Petrus (wisl) $349 per magnum, 93pts, WS
6 bottles 2000 La Fleur Petrus $189 per bottle, 93+pts, WA

1 bottle 1982 La Mission Haut Brion $899 per bottle, 99pts, WA
2 bottles 1985 La Mission Haut Brion $239 per bottle, 92pts, WA
1 bottle 1990 La Mission Haut Brion $429 per bottle, 96pts, WA
3 bottles 1998 La Mission Haut Brion $189 per bottle, 93pts, WA

1 bottle 1990 Lafite Rothschild (lightly stained label) $899 per bottle, 96pts, WA
2 bottles 1996 Lafite Rothschild $1,299 per bottle, 100pts, WA
3 bottles 2002 Lafite Rothschild $749 per bottle, 94pts, WA
4 bottles 2003 Lafite Rothschild $1,149 per bottle, 100pts, WA

1 bottle 1985 Lafleur $599 per bottle
2 bottles 1989 Lafleur $1,199 per bottle, 95pts, WA
1 bottle 1994 Lafleur $179 per bottle, 93pts, WA
3 bottles 1998 Lafleur $499 per bottle, 98pts, WS

2 bottles 1955 Latour (vhs, stained labels) $999 per bottle, 94pts, WA
2 bottles 1962 Latour (base neck) $599 per bottle, 95pts, WA
1 bottle 1964 Latour (ts, stained label) $439 per bottle, 91pts, WA
1 bottle 1971 Latour (base neck) $399 per bottle, 94pts, WA
1 bottle 1979 Latour $199 per bottle
1 bottle 1982 Latour $1,799 per bottle, 100pts, WA
2 bottles 1990 Latour $799 per bottle, 95+pts, WA
2 bottles 1995 Latour $499 per bottle, 95pts, WA
4 bottles 1996 Latour $599 per bottle, 99pts, WA
2 bottles 2001 Latour $399 per bottle, 95pts, WA
3 bottles 2002 Latour $349 per bottle, 96pts, WA
5 bottles 2003 Latour $799 per bottle, 100pts, WA

5 bottles 2000 Le Bon Pasteur $89 per bottle, 93pts, WA

2 bottles 1989 Le Gay $99 per bottle, 95pts, WS

1 bottle 1975 L'Eglise Clinet $199 per bottle, 92pts, WA
3 bottles 1985 L'Eglise Clinet $279 per bottle, 95pts, WA
4 bottles 1998 L'Eglise Clinet $189 per bottle, 94pts, WA
6 bottles 2005 L'Eglise Clinet $549 per bottle, 100pts, WA

3 bottles 2000 Leoville Barton $139 per bottle, 95pts, WA

1 bottle 1982 Leoville Las Cases $499 per bottle, 95pts, WA
1 bottle 1986 Leoville Las Cases $329 per bottle, 98pts, WA
3 bottles 1995 Leoville Las Cases $189 per bottle, 95pts, WA

3 bottles 1982 Leoville Poyferre $199 per bottle, 95pts, WA
2 bottles 1990 Leoville Poyferre $229 per bottle, 97pts, WA
3 bottles 2000 Leoville Poyferre $129 per bottle, 97pts, WA
4 bottles 2003 Leoville Poyferre $139 per bottle, 98pts, WA

1 bottle 1967 L'Evangile (vhs, stained label) $159 per bottle
1 bottle 1982 L'Evangile $359 per bottle, 98pts, WA
1 bottle 1985 L'Evangile $259 per bottle, 95pts, WA
1 bottle 1989 L'Evangile $159 per bottle, 92pts, WS
2 bottles 1990 L'Evangile $299 per bottle, 95pts, WS
2 bottles 1995 L'Evangile $129 per bottle, 93pts, ST
9 bottles 1998 L'Evangile $239 per bottle, 98pts, WS

1 bottle 1982 Lynch Bages $249 per bottle, 96pts, WS
1 bottle 1985 Lynch Bages $159 per bottle, 94pts, JK
2 bottles 1989 Lynch Bages $249 per bottle, 95pts, WA
1 bottle 1990 Lynch Bages $249 per bottle, 97pts, WA
4 bottles 1996 Lynch Bages $129 per bottle, 94pts, WA
4 bottles 2000 Lynch Bages $179 per bottle, 96pts, WS

1 bottle 1981 Margaux $249 per bottle, 91pts, WA
1 bottle 1986 Margaux $459 per bottle, 96pts, WA
1 bottle 1989 Margaux (stained label) $349 per bottle
2 bottles 1990 Margaux (soiled labels) $1,099 per bottle, 100pts, WA
6 bottles 1996 Margaux $599 per bottle, 99pts, WA
3 bottles 2002 Margaux $279 per bottle, 93pts, WA
4 bottles 2003 Margaux $549 per bottle, 99pts,WA

1 bottle 1937 Marquis de Terme (vhs) $149 per bottle

2 bottles 1989 Montrose $279 per bottle, 96pts, WA
3 bottles 1990 Montrose $499 per bottle, 100pts, WA
2 bottles 2000 Montrose $189 per bottle, 95pts, WA
4 bottles 2003 Montrose $199 per bottle, 97pts, WA

1 bottle 1959 Mouton Rothschild (vhs, soiled label) $2,995 per bottle, 100pts, WA
1 bottle 1982 Mouton Rothschild (soiled label) $1,249 per bottle, 100pts, WA
1 bottle 1983 Mouton Rothschild $249 per bottle, 94pts, WS
1 bottle 1998 Mouton Rothschild (soiled label) $299 per bottle, 96pts, WA

3 bottles 1983 Palmer $399 per bottle, 97pts, WA
1 bottle 1989 Palmer $299 per bottle, 95pts, WA
1 bottle 1998 Palmer $129 per bottle, 91pts, WA
1 bottle 1999 Palmer $189 per bottle, 95pts, WA
4 bottles 2002 Palmer $139 per bottle, 94pts, WA

1 bottle 1961 Pichon Baron (vhs, stained label) $399 per bottle
6 bottles 1989 Pichon Baron $219 per bottle, 95pts, WA
3 bottles 1990 Pichon Baron $229 per bottle, 97pts, WA
8 bottles 2000 Pichon Baron $189 per bottle, 97pts, WA

1 bottle 1982 Pichon Lalande $499 per bottle, 100pts, WA
1 bottle 1986 Pichon Lalande $239 per bottle, 96pts, WA
3 bottles 1995 Pichon Lalande $239 per bottle, 96pts, WA
3 bottles 1996 Pichon Lalande $179 per bottle, 96pts, WA
1 bottle 2000 Pichon Lalande $209 per bottle, 96pts, WA
3 bottles 2003 Pichon Lalande $139 per bottle, 95pts, WA

3 bottles 2000 Troplong Mondot $129 per bottle, 96pts, WA

1 bottle 1982 Trotanoy (top shoulder) $499 per bottle, 94pts, WA
1 bottle 1990 Trotanoy $249 per bottle, 95pts, WA
1 bottle 1995 Trotanoy $149 per bottle, 93pts, WA

2 bottles 1990 Vieux Chateau Certan $199 per bottle, 94pts, WA
2 bottles 2000 Vieux Chateau Certan $179 per bottle, 95pts, WA
3 bottles 2005 Vieux Chateau Certan $179 per bottle, 95pts, WA

Est-ce possible de commander ça au Québec?

Bien compliqué, et tu vas en plus pyer les taxes aux douanes. Le plus simple demeure de faire livrer aux USA et de récupérer le tout. Je te laisse la gestion de la récupération des bouteilles, sachant que nous sommes limités à 2!

Faut connaître un pilote d'avion, avoir une résidence, un cellier ou de la famille au sud de la frontière ...

J'ai vu l'offre de la SAQ. Attendez-vous à des prix similaires à la LCBO... mais beaucoup moins de choix. Rien de nouveau sous le soleil, si ce n'est que DM a maintenant laissé toute la place à JH. Il y a aussi des formats géants de plusieurs vins.

Pour les curieux, Pontet Canet est à 169$ mais aussi offert en mag, double mag et jero.

A-t-on une idée du moment où les catalogues seront envoyés?

D'après moi la semaine prochaine.

Écrit dans le contexte des prix démentiels des bordeaux 2009, voici un article très intéressant d'Andrew Jefford sur le statut particulier du grand vin dans notre culture:

http://www.decanter.com/archive/article.php?id=300624

Je retiens en particulier ceci:

"I love trying to trace lines of equivalence between wine appreciation and the enjoyment of the fine arts: literature, music, painting. Money, unfortunately, annihilates wine's credentials in this respect. The appreciation of the fine arts is wholly democratic: the entry fee is minimal. I've picked up War and Peace recently; the paperback edition I'm reading cost £5.99. You can slip into The National Gallery in London and enjoy Vermeer's A Young Woman standing at a Virginal or Caravaggio's Supper at Emmaus in perfect personal quiet, for an hour or two, for free. A CD of Alfred Brendel playing all of Schubert's Impromptus costs about £10; you can relish it 300 times if you like. But buying just one bottle of Château Latour, for a single drinking occasion, will cost vastly more than any of these experiences.

Fine wines are not creations of human genius, but skilfully crafted luxury goods. High cost, moreover, creates an entirely unreasonable aura around a wine."

Et sa conclusion:

"There's no point moaning about this: it is just a fact of life. But it does go some way to explaining why the circle of wine enthusiasts will always be restricted. It's a reason why those selling the finest wines must sometimes wonder if they have, in fact, fallen into financial services and wealth management by accident. It means that trying to organise comparative critical tastings of the finest wines will become harder to do, and it means that critical scrutiny of the best will become limited to a small clique. The world's finest wines have never been finer than they are today – but their enjoyment is now plutocratic, not democratic."

Voilà qques années que je n'achète plus les primeurs à la SAQ. C'est une expérience bcp trop pénible. En revanche, je viens de dénicher Pontet-Canet 2009 et Duffau-Lagarosse 2009. Ce sera probablement suffisant pour moi. Les prix sont ridicules. Je préfère garder mes billets pour la grande bourgogne

1 x Ausone 2009 pour le prix de 3 x La Tâche ???